Predicting when Welsh rugby has actually hit rock bottom has become quite difficult recently.
Each time we think a new low has been reached in the past couple of years, yet another marker is put down.
Saturday's 73-0 record home humiliation against world champions South Africa is Wales' latest low point.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisementSitting in the Principality Stadium in March listening to England performing their victory song after inflicting a record 68-14 home defeat on their hosts, one Welsh rugby expert asked "it can't get worse than this, can it?"
It turns out it can.
Eight months on from the England embarrassment, it was the Springboks squad belting out their celebration tune on an autumnal Saturday night in Cardiff.
This 11-try demolition was the second worst defeat in Welsh rugby history after the 96-13 hammering dished out by the Springboks in Pretoria in 1998.
So where can Welsh rugby go from here?
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Another annus horribilis for Welsh rugby
Debating whether the England or South Africa loss was more degrading for Welsh rugby might seem futile.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisementIn the same way as judging whether 2024 or 2025 was the more humbling year for the national men's side. Abject failure is becoming the norm.
It is worth revisiting how low Welsh rugby has sunk since the World Cup quarter-final defeat to Argentina in Marseilles in October 2023.
Since that loss, Wales have been beaten in 20 out of 22 matches in the two calendar years that have followed.
In 2024, Wales lost all 11 Test matches, while this year they have suffered nine defeats in 11 games, with the only two victories coming against Japan.
While 2025 has actually seen some success of sorts, it is arguably worse than 2024.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisementWales have twice suffered record home defeats, shipped 50 points at home on four occasions against England, Argentina, New Zealand and South Africa and had three head coaches in Warren Gatland, Matt Sherratt and Tandy.
Wales started the year in January by being 'nilled' in their 43-0 Six Nations defeat to France in Paris.
They ended 2025 with another pointless performance against the Springboks. A neat bookend to another traumatic 12 months in Welsh rugby's varied soap opera story.
WRU face questions on future reforms
"They say what doesn't kill you only makes you stronger."
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisementThose were the sentiments of WRU president Terry Cobner in his South Africa programme notes.
Following the latest capitulation and an 11th home Test defeat in 12 games, Welsh rugby does find itself on life support.
The WRU annual general meeting (AGM) will be held on Sunday, less than 24 hours after Welsh rugby's latest humiliation. It could prove a lively affair.
This latest shambles against the Springboks might well strengthen the WRU's hand that something has to be done.
After the England loss, former Wales captain Gwyn Jones said Welsh rugby bosses should not waste a crisis and must instigate immediate major change.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisementThe WRU has since proposed cutting the amount of professional sides in Wales from four to three but no clear plan has emerged on how that will happen.
Negotiations will continue with Ospreys, Scarlets, Cardiff and Dragons in December, with the WRU hoping the decision can be made by consensus before the end of the year.
If it is not resolved, the process will go out to tender and that could take six months.
So it could still be on going in the spring when Wales will be attempting to avoid a third clean sweep of defeats in the Six Nations.
The process is being led by WRU director of rugby and head of elite performance Dave Reddin, chair Richard Collier-Keywood and chief executive Abi Tierney, who has only just returned to work after undergoing cancer treatment.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisementThe faith in the ability of this trio to instigate and implement change is under scrutiny with question marks over their futures.
Reddin was caught on camera smiling while Wales were trailing 59-0 against South Africa.
At best, it was unfortunate optics. At worst, it reveals concerns as to whether Reddin has empathy with the current plight of Welsh rugby and if he really has its interests at heart.
Tandy faces case for the defence
Reddin's first major job was to appoint Steve Tandy and it has been a baptism of fire in the first campaign for the new head coach.
Tandy has suffered significant defeats against Argentina, New Zealand and South Africa, alongside a one-point last gasp win against Japan courtesy of a late Jarrod Evans penalty.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisementWhile there have been some glimpses of attacking intent, former Scotland and British and Irish Lions defence coach Tandy will be especially concerned with his specialist area.
Wales have conceded 27 tries and 200 points in the four November matches where they were constantly overpowered and outmuscled.
Tandy will need a renowned defence coach appointed in time for the Six Nations.
He also must be given more permanent coaches in his backroom staff to join Sherratt and Danny Wilson.
'We must not be in this position again' - Lake
After the South Africa defeat, Wales captain Dewi Lake says his side must not find themselves in that position again.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisementHow much damage is being done to young inexperienced Welsh players is also a concern.
Not just what they are being exposed to on the international scene but also fears about their own futures.
Former Wales fly-half James Hook says the players should not be singled out for criticism.
"It's not the time to pick out individuals or flaws in how we attacked or how we defended," Hook told BBC Radio Wales.
"Everybody knows the situation with Welsh rugby at the moment, on and off the field, there's so much uncertainty and that's having an effect on these players.
"The uncertainty as to whether these boys are going to have jobs in the next six months or a year or so is taking its toll."
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisement'Lambs to the slaughter'
Questions have been asked as to why the WRU arranged this fixture in the first place, as it attracted the lowest crowd, just over 50,000, for a match between these two countries in Cardiff since 1999.
Wales were forced to field a weakened side minus their 13 England and France-based players with the match falling outside World Rugby's official Test window.
Watching the likes of Tomos Williams, Dafydd Jenkins and Louis Rees-Zammit excelling in action for their clubs on the same weekend as their Welsh team-mates were being humbled in Cardiff sums up the farcical situation.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisementSouth Africa also lost players to club duty but were still able to call on a dazzling array of talent, with their bench alone boasting more Test caps than Wales' entire matchday squad.
"This fixture against the world champions was at the end of an autumn campaign which has already been a bit of a struggle," said Hook.
"Frankly, it was lambs to the slaughter and it's hard to blame any of those Welsh players."
The brutal truth is the majority of this Welsh crop of players are currently not up to international standard and are being exposed. They feel the pain of dire defeats more than anybody.
AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisementSo for everybody involved in Welsh rugby - the WRU, players, coaches and supporters - this must now be rock bottom. Surely?